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 Post subject: New York Cup rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: USA
Folks,

I dug around in my computer files and found the correspondence, which the web site would not let me attach to this message. I can send it PM to any that need it. I believe is what was finally accepted by the North Shore Yacht Club back in 1996. As I recall we tried to get North Shore to go along with modern team race rules but that was not accepted. There should be notes in the sailing committee minutes which Alan should have and copies of everything went to Peter Wells. As I recall but could confirm by looking at the Sailing Committee minutes, the North Shore Yacht Club accepted this codicil.

What does this mean for the Travemunde championships?

To sum the codicil, there needs to be a challenge 3 months before the worlds.
The actual challenger would be selected by team standings after the first 4 races.
If the holder is not at the championship, the trophy is forfeit to the challenger of record. If the holder has fewer than 3 canoes then the contest would be held with one or two.

Assuming that there has been a challenge and there is a challenger of record,
if the defending nation has no entries the cup would be forfeit to the challenger.

If the Aussies have one entry then that would be the defender. Whether or not the Aussies could defer to another country and have the top two teams after the first four races duke it out is not really addressed in the rules.

Ben

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Ben Fuller
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 Post subject: Re: New York Cup rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:49 pm
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Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
Thanks Ben. It's always worth going back to the Rules in cases like this. However things are not always as simple as they might be, or the circumstances might not be as envisaged under the codicil. I think it has been assumed that there will be a contest for the New York Cup, but does that mean that one country has to issue a challenge, and if there is no challenge there can't be a contest? I don't think a challenge has been issued before (certainly not during the 13 years when I was UK secretary and UK held the trophy). We haven't really had a challenger of record as the top qualifying team after a set number of races has become the challenger. It doesn't seem right/just/fair (admittedly not necessarily relevant) that a challenger should win by default by being the top country after 4 races when everyone (I believe) would rather see the top 2 countries sail for the Cup if the holder cannot put up a team.

Maybe we (the canoe sailing community) should go ahead and do it the way we would like to, and if anyone wants to challenge this in the courts then let then go ahead and fund his legal battle himself.

So much easier if Australia put up a defence.

What other thoughts from canoe sailors?

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: New York Cup rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:26 pm 
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Location: United Kingdom
petermclaren wrote:
Maybe we (the canoe sailing community) should go ahead and do it the way we would like to, and if anyone wants to challenge this in the courts then let then go ahead and fund his legal battle himself.

For what little my opinion is worth I think its really up to the Captain of the Australian team/Association President. If they wish to cede the trophy as being unable to mount a defence then that must be their privilege, and it could then be held to be vacant, and eligible for competition by the top two teams at the event.


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 Post subject: Re: New York Cup rules
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:31 pm
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Location: USA
As I recall when we tried to get North Shore to do away with the old rules and accede to the new ones this was the best that they would accept.

I don't know about others but I recall sending challenger of record letters or getting someone to do so. It was relatively rare that the challenger of record actually challenged. The 4 race was built in deliberately I do recall so that trying to become the challenger for New York Cup and trying to do well in the regatta could get separated... so that there would be no 'team' racing in the fleet races.

Formally it would take someone to contact the North Shore Yacht Club if one wanted to make a change for this event, and that should probably come from the chair of the sailing committee or the US representative.

Ben

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 Post subject: Re: New York Cup rules
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:42 am
Posts: 79
Location: Australia
Are the rules for the New York Cup (the actual wording) posted anywhere public, and if not, can they be? It's hard to discuss this sensibly when we don't know what we're talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: New York Cup rules
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:45 pm
Posts: 757
Location: United Kingdom
Mal Smith wrote:
Are the rules for the New York Cup (the actual wording) posted anywhere public, and if not, can they be?

Ben, if you PM them to me I'll put them up on the intcanoe.org pages.
regards, Jim C


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