Sail types and shapes

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cgould4004
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:32 pm

Sail types and shapes

Post by cgould4004 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:28 pm

I am currently "pimping" my IC in numerous ways and will soon be purchasing a new set of sails.
Having researched sailmakers and types of sail, i noticed that there is quite a difference between cuts of mainsail

( http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/?s=64&PID=25796 )

I currently have a set of Hydes, but i think that the I-14 style main looks better. (see link) Having spoken to various sailmakers about their thoughts on what is supposedly fast, there does not seem to be a standard shape, fullness etc.

What makes of sail are used most commonly and why?

Chris Gould

Alistair
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:28 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by Alistair » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:53 am

Hi Chris
In the UK the most used sails are Hyde. I have a set of Morrisons that are also popular having several years of development. Orange sails have had many years of development, but I have always found it hard to get hold of Lester and I am not sure if he still makes them. The Australians use irwin, (I think) and the current US sails look good, but they use quite different masts to us, I think they are stiffer, made from high modlus carbon and have a long continious taper.
Charlie has had some new sails made by DS with a square head, saw them at the dinghy show and they looked OK but not sure how they perform. (if you look in the gallery section of the uk web site uner the dinghy show theres a good photo of them)
Its a mine feild and unless you want to spend some time and money with your sailmaker its best to go for a set that has been proven over a few years.
Alistair
Alistair

cgould4004
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Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by cgould4004 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:43 pm

Thanks Alastair,
I have looked at the hydes and i am not very impressed to be honest. I have a stiff mast with floppy top and would prefer a set to suit this. The hydes are ok but look as if they are playing safe and not really thinking about the full potential of the sail plan. With the mainsail, i am probably going to go for the time and money option with DS as he agreed with my ideas and seemed to be enthusiastic in helping me out. I am making my own "fat-head" jib.

Cheers
Chris Gould

charlie1502
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:40 pm

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by charlie1502 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:33 pm

Hi Chris. like yourself i wasn't overly keen with the Hydes, I found them too full in the head and too flat in the foot. I wonder if this was to improve down wind performance pre kite? So for that reason I went with the ds sails based on the latest 14 sails - which have had far more development in recent years than canoe sails. Are they fast? They seen to be going very quick at the moment with minimal tunning. I'm very happy with them, and most importantly - they look good, roll on the inlands...!
AC GBR 284

jimc
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Location: United Kingdom
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Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by jimc » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:15 pm

charlie1502 wrote:they look good, roll on the inlands...!
257 will hopefully be sporting something slightly different in the way of rags (like APs emanating from Caws on the IOW) come the inlands, together with a modified mast. Whether they will can make any discernable difference, bearing in mind my ability to seek out the slowest route down any downwind leg, is of course quite another matter.

cgould4004
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by cgould4004 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm

I never have a tactics or speed problem downwind, i am more concerned with sails that can give height and speed to windward, as i have been playing with a VMG and have found that in enough wind and certain wave conditions it pays to play the angles on a run. My main in 12kts of wind when reaching the angles offwind wasnt much further out than it was upwind, the speed was over double for an average of just under double the distance. I think i can improve on the numbers by fitting a GNAV, as my kicker needs to be constantly played due to a bad setup giving increased tension as the boom goes out.

I have only heard good things about DS sails and have used them on Merlins where they are very fast.

Chris Gould

johnnixon
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:04 pm

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by johnnixon » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:18 pm

Just out of interest has anyone read the rules on sail insignia recently?

jimc
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Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by jimc » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:47 pm

johnnixon wrote:Just out of interest has anyone read the rules on sail insignia recently?
Did you have anything especial in mind?

H Virtue
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:34 am
Location: Australia

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by H Virtue » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:47 pm

jimc wrote:
johnnixon wrote:Just out of interest has anyone read the rules on sail insignia recently?
Did you have anything especial in mind?
I think he is refering to the color of the insignia

Barry Watkin
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:37 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by Barry Watkin » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:08 pm

What John's picked up on just in case youve missed it is the DS sails had a rather odd tint of red about the insignia! Or as we might call it BLUE! :mrgreen: And still ACanoe less!
BMW

johnnixon
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:04 pm

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by johnnixon » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:53 pm

Well spotted Barry.
To be exact "IC" and "A" should be in red and I suspect the "A" is not regulation size. It's supprising how many boats leave themselves open to potential (petty, granted) protest from DIY "A" 's.

H Virtue
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:34 am
Location: Australia

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by H Virtue » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:09 am

Its an interesting issue. I wondered how long before it was noticed.

Sure no one gains any advantage having different color insignia and "A". But where do you drawing the line, the class rules cleary states the letters are to be red, like it does the max extension of the seat, minimum weight.. and so on. Is it ok to ignore one rule and not others when it suits?

I guess its up to each measurer to enforce the rules as they see fit! As the Australian measurer I wont sign a sail measured with anything but red Insignia and "A" if required. I'll measure the area but wont sign it off. Tough! maybe, but whats good for one is good for all.

Personally I wont leave myself open, I always make sure I have a red "IC".

H.

Abu hamster
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:58 am

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by Abu hamster » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:10 am

Any one tried the Pinnell and Bax offerings?

Pete H
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:39 pm

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by Pete H » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:00 pm

Kevan Bloor at Alverbank, has recently made some very well recieved jibs and more recently a 'square head' AC Technora mainsail for Ian at Carsington. This looks very good so far.

Im sure he would welcome any interest.

http://www.alverbanksails.co.uk/default.htm

Pete

MartinB
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:54 pm

Re: Sail types and shapes

Post by MartinB » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:42 pm

Was just reading the remarks on sails...and would just like to say....(i'm no expert by the way...but. :lol: ..)

"Trendy" square top mainsails.....with referance to the Int 14's mainsails please bear in mind why the development of these has been used in class...the mainsail on the 14 is very simply measured and this area at the top is "free Issue" unmeasured, we have 0.7m2 on our latest square top...(i've never told Gareth that...) thats is not measured...these sails where developed by the USA sailors and used at a worlds a few years ago when the UK boats were outclassed in boat speed...hence them coming to the UK...

Additionaly... The 14 is generally overpowered and the new sails are "quiver tops" like windsurfers and self venting....while im not saying this style of sail is not right for the IC (as i see Charlie is going well with a DS square top).. to be able to close the leach down and increase your pointing when required on these sails is alot more dificult... . these sails are generally used for a very fast free sailing/beating style..(yes... just like you gareth)....and not pointing and heading for marks/bouys type racing....again the 14 are developing very high performance foils (like charlies again)...to match this higher speed sailing....

Big jibs are being used to optimize upwind sailing on the 14's now....and i know this was the way Rob was going, thinking and doin a few years ago with Hydes...(or was it just to be able to get below the boom..!!.)...anyway mybe a bit of food for thought........good luck with your idears and developments and dont "just do it" for fashion sakes... :lol: ..lol...

Long live pin heads..... :) (well in th OK class anyway)

Good sailing to you all...Martin (a still interested ex Canoe sailor) :D

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