Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

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chrishampe
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Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by chrishampe » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:14 am

From my various chats at the dinghy show and with growing local numbers I propose that we hold the 2012 Euros in Plymouth. Mayflower SC's Dave Curno has already approached us to return to the city.

We would have a choice either to base the boats at the Mayflower Sailing Club or we could use the facilities at Mt Batten which is just across the river (south east) from the Mayflower SC. For those who do not know Plymouth, it is regarded as one of the best sailing waters in the UK. Racing can be held either inside the protection of the breakwater or out on the open sea and the city and surrounding areas provides plenty of opportunities for non sailing friends or family to keep themselves entertained.

We could also run a long distance race up the river Tamar to Saltash (Home of two of the local boats)

But what does everyone else think?

Regards Chris Hampe
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Colin Newman
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by Colin Newman » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:09 pm

Chris,

I think it is a great idea during the year I celebrate my 70th birthday. Count me in. Pass my greetings to Dave Curno. I had a great time out beyond the breakwater one year in the Mayflower 'Final Fling' in decent big waves and force 4/5 winds. We have far too few IC events in open water these days with far too few chances to sail in the wavy stuff. I guess it is because the ACs do not like big waves?

It would not be easy sailing and parking cars at Mayflower if the boats were the opposite side of the water at Mt Batten. Sailors need to get at tool boxes etc and by road the two places are miles apart, I gather? Is there a frequent ferry or are all crossings in club-owned RIBs? Launching from Mayflower is the only downside but presumably the club can help as they did last time?

Cheers

Colin Newman

cc284
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by cc284 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:37 pm

Plymouth sounds good to me but my vote would be to launch from Mt Batten as it's potentially an expensive experience launching from Mayflower in my experience!! Crushed a 29'er while launching an Alb a couple of years back...
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chrishampe
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by chrishampe » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:02 am

I think Mt Batten is the best location, The launching ramps are two and a half canoe lengths wide with only a few small boat moorings close by. There would also be electric hook ups for motorhomes at Mt Batten.
There is a passenger ferry operating between the Mayflower steps and Mt Batten But I'm sure we could organise a rib if required.

The Mayflower's Final fling is on the 9th & 10th October 2010, seams we dont have any IC opens in october so if anyone wants to come down I will see if we can have a class start.

Chris H
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SteveC
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by SteveC » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:04 am

The Corus Open may need to be held in conjunction with their October regatta which will be the 2/3rd October as currently they haven't agreed to our usual slot in September due to poor turnout last year.
Steve Clarke (UK)
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Colin Newman
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by Colin Newman » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:53 pm

I agree Mt Batten for launching sounds good, especially if motor caravans can stay there with electric hook ups.

Mention of the Pilgrim Steps reminds me how returning to the Mayflower Sailing Club on a run in very strong Easterly winds last time, I drooped the main to come in under jib only, but then found the small ramp at the club was too crowded with Moths to get a slot to get in. Both John Ellis, who had done the same thing, and I thus ended up on the Pilgrim Steps where the pilgrims had set sail for America. :oops: An IC will not make ground to windward under jib alone so a RIB had to pick us up and take our ICs back to the Mayflower ramp. So yes, launch from Mt Batten!! :D

Colin

Mudman
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by Mudman » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:29 pm

Why not come to Brightlingsea instead? Safe launching in any wind/tide, great estuary/sea sailing, camping 100 yds from club (commercial).
This year we're running the Mirror Nationals and the 420 Nationals plus big opens and cat events. Loads of experience, friendly club, and perhaps a bit more accessible than Plymouth? Certainly a lot nearer our continental friends...I'm sure a long weekend event would be a possibility if there's any interest.
Who knows, I might even have my boat back on the water by then.....

David

PS - is it just me, or has the site been a tad slow recently? Posting this kept timing out (Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in D:\intcanoe.org\wwwroot\forum2\includes\functions_display.php on line 14)
"No easy way to be free..."
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Alistair
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by Alistair » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:55 pm

Hi
My memories of plymouth, in about 1995/6 are a bit frightening, had recently had a new boat and it blew old boots (got towed in after a huge number of capsizes), but a good piece of water, gets my vote. I would be in favour of a Brightlingsea event sometime, its probably one of the best places to sail a canoe, sheltered launching and open water, and on a selfish note its also not too far for me
Alistair
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Mike Shreeve
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by Mike Shreeve » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:05 am

I sailed from Mayflower - did a Contender Nationals there Mid 90's - launching as I remember was poor at best, with a ferry right next to the on water. However I agree that once on the water it was good. I have no knowledge of the Mt Battern location!

Mind you its a long way down there for most.

As for Brightlingsea - Yes nice venue, and the showers are very good, and the members are all very nice, and helpful - I have sailed from there many time in the Fireball, and Contender. Lot of oozing mud so in general terms good total inversion but the sail turns an odd shade of grey.

Probably need to get a period of suitable height of tide to launch on.

The only down side is there isn't very much to do down there - least ways on the times I have been there on a weekend. So I guess the SC might have to be quite inventive on things to do?

Mike
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chrishampe
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by chrishampe » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:47 pm

Here is an areial (from google earth) overview of the Mt Batten Sailing centre at low tide.
mt batten.JPG
mt batten.JPG (106.98 KiB) Viewed 15599 times
For those who don't know Mt Batten is located just to the south of the Mayflower Sailing Club on the opposite side of the River Plym. The site was a RAF base and the slipway is nice and wide having originally been built to handle Southampton class flying boats. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Southampton) The site was redeveloped around 1995 and the whole area opened up as a waterside park. The sailing centre built at the time of the developments has facilities to match the top UK venues and is used by the RYA for Youth squad training as an alternative venue to Portland. The site has hosted many National, European and World championships. Launching is easy in any wind direction and at any tide height onto the shelter of the river Plym. There would be options to race north or south of the breakwater.

The site has everything we need, There would be no need to run anything from the Mayflower side of the water. The sailing centre provides limited b&b and electric hook ups for camper vans. There is also plenty of alternative accommodation in the local area:
http://www.hotelmountbatten.co.uk
http://www.bori.co.uk
(both of these are within walking distance)

There are also two campsites that are within cycling distance (4.1 & 7 miles)
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/caravanclu ... csid=21959
http://www.riversidecaravanpark.com/

As for distance for Euro visitors Plymouth only takes about 90 mins longer to get to then it would take to get to Brightlingsea from the channel Tunnel and has its own direct link to france. Plymouth is a vibrant city that has seen lots of development over the past few years. It is a great city with plenty of attractions and sites to see and is also a great base to explore the other south west attractions. This is somewhere you can bring the whole family and if the sailing should get binned there is plenty to do, This is not some little hole at the end of the world!
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Mudman
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by Mudman » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:50 pm

Chris,

I've no wish to turn this into a slanging match, but I really must take exception your calling Brightlingsea " some little hole at the end of the world". I think there are a lot of sailors - including our home-grown Olympic Gold Medallist Reg White - who would take great exception to that. I do.
The list of major classes that have held championships here over the last decade is a long one. Many have come back time and time again. We've often found that south coast sailors in particular have an unfounded bias against sailing on the East Coast, but once they've visited us they realise what they've been missing.
I've sailed Hornets at Plymouth many a time and enjoyed it, but I can't say that I'd relish the prospect of launching a Canoe there. perhaps that's my problem, but I can think of a lot of places I'd rather sail one from.
And I really must question your maths. According to Google, Brightlingsea is 129 miles from Dover. Plymouth is 285. If you can do 155 miles in 90 minutes with a boat on the back then good luck to you.....And wouldn't our German/Scandinavian friends come via the Hook and on to Harwich - just 20 minutes up the road?
As for places to stay, there's a campsite within walking distance (100 yards, adjacent to our dinghy park) and local B&Bs within a mile. We've accommodated around 5-600 Mirror sailors and familes before now, so it can't be all that sparse. A 14 mile bike ride as well as sailing? I'm obviously in the wrong class...
And as for things to do. Colchester (Roman castle, big shops) Dedham (Constable country) Clacton (pier and trad seaside) all within 12 miles or so. But the scenery, walking and wildlife (not to mention a swimming pool, skatepark and playground virtually within view of the club if you like that sort of thing) round here is so good - SSSIs abound - it's hard to see why you'd want to go further afield. And our club does have a pretty good reputation on the sailing, catering and social front.
If you think Plymouth is best, that's fine. I don't, but I haven't resorted to slagging the place off. I have no input into where the class goes and I was only suggesting my home club as an alternative because a: it's a good one, b: it's a b***** sight closer to Europe, and c: we don't have launching problems that were obviously a concern for other Canoe sailors.

David
"No easy way to be free..."
IC 206 sailing out of Brightlingsea

chrishampe
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by chrishampe » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:29 pm

1) I said "Plymouth is not some not some little hole at the end of the world!" in defence of my home town after your comment:-
and perhaps a bit more accessible than Plymouth?
Nowhere in my message did I say that or anything negative about Brightlingsea or any other location.

2) The GPS software on my phone states a journey time of 3 hours from The channel Tunnel to Brightlingsea and 4 hours 35 from the tunnel to Plymouth, So yes I (or rather Co-Pilot) have done my maths. This was not intended to take anything away from Brightlingsea just illustrate that Plymouth is not that much further

3) The Hook to Harwich ferry is expensive and saves little time for its higher cost, so personally I think most would take some form of Dover-Calais crossing where competition keeps the prices down. When pricing trips to Germany/Sweden with boat in tow the channel tunnel provided a much cheaper crossing. But journey time is largely irrelevant as it will take a day for the furtherest travellers no matter where in the UK any Euro champs are held.

The rest of my post was really to answer the class members who have visited Plymouth before and have raised concerns. The city is vastly different and the facilities are much improved I hope to have answered their concerns. I would be more than happy to answer any further questions.

I hope you can see I have nothing against Brightlingsea and you have every right to put a claim on hosting the champs at Brightlingsea or any other venue.

Where the class goes will always be debated, I put Plymouth forward as a 2012 venue as I think we should go north in 2011 for the Nats. Last year the class went east (Stone) and the year before we were West in Dale so it made sense to me somehow.
I suggest that if any alternative venues are to be put forward then those venues should have their own topic. Now I Don't want that to sound negative, But I think it is better to separate each proposal.

Finally I do think that the class needs a regular travellers event on the east coast.
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IC235
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by IC235 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:16 pm

+1 Plymouth
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Colin Newman
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by Colin Newman » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:34 am

Personally I think it is great there is enough enthusiasm to have two guys suggesting venues in 2012 for a yet to be agreed proposal that the UK hosts the 2012 Europa Cup! Both sound good, I know Plymouth but have only once called in at Brightlingsea on a non sailing day at what was probably low water, I remember seeing lots of mud as far as the eye can see! I noticed at Stone last year there was quite a bit of weed about in the water, from Brightlingsea further down the Blackwater is weed less of a issue?

I particularly like the prospect of again getting sailing on the sea as ICs go well in waves. I suppose it is all a matter of finding clubs willing to host IC events, but this year all our opens seem to be at inland venues, the same sailing experience as I get all the time at Draycote Water! More sea events would be nice. what would be the prospects of Plymouth and Brightlingsea putting on an IC open and premier event in 2011 so we can all sample both venues and get IC sailing back onto the sea?

Cheers Colin

Mudman
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Re: Europa cup 2012 proposal: Plymouth

Post by Mudman » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:29 pm

I reckon I could talk the sailing committee into an open meeting in 2011. We'd have to share with someone to get the numbers up, but I can't see it being too much of a problem.
Mud - yes, there's plenty of it at low tide, but we get round this by scheduling open meetings with midday/early afternoon tides and by setting courses well out in the Colne/Blackwater estuary.The distances involved are no problem to fast boats like Canoes. We've accommodated the Tornado Nationals, B14 Nationals, Mirror Nationals, Fireball Nationals, Cadet qualifiers, etc, all with many more boats than we're likely to see, so space is not a problem.
As to weed, I don't think it's more of an issue than any other coastal venue. If there's a very high spring tide a fair amount will wash off the salt marshes, so that may have been the problem in the Blackwater. In general it's clear - you certainly won't get the algae that can plague a pond in the summer!
Think Blackwater with slightly less tide and waves.

David
"No easy way to be free..."
IC 206 sailing out of Brightlingsea

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